The Epiphany with Daniel Pink

Before Daniel Pink was the author of four NYTimes bestsellers, he was a reporter for his high school paper, The Bexley Torch. While writing his first story, he had an epiphany about experiential learning that would permanently redefine his ideas about motivation and learning.

Daniel Pink’s book A Whole New Mind makes the case for why experiential learning is necessary in the 21st century. His book Drive explains why it is also so much more motivating for young people. The epiphany that led Dan to these ideas may have occurred when, as a 14-year-old freshman, he wrote his first story for his high school newspaper, The Bexley Torch. In this interview Dan digs up long-buried memories and relives the moment that experiential learning produced what he describes as a physiological change in his brain.

We cover a lot of territory including:

3:37 Dan as a regrettably compliant student

4:30 Performance goals vs. learning goals (or why Dan can’t speak French)

5:59 How performance goals harm mental health

8:49 Dan’s first Torch story assignment produces a major epiphany

14:07 How extra-curricular experiences differ from traditional school learning

15:11 The link between motivation and human nature

17:51 How the world has changed yet schools stay largely the same

19:37 The skills young people need to avoid having their future jobs outsourced

22:12 Why traditional academic skills are still important, but they’re no longer sufficient

24:04 How Dan’s children engaged in experiential learning outside of school

26:21 What about kids without well-resourced parents?

27:41 Can schools change when we’re so deeply rooted in “bygone era” traditions?

29:00 Dan’s simple and practical suggestion to educators

29:45 An outrageous visual picture of traditional education

30:43 Standardization vs. extreme customization

31:42 A passage from Drive that epitomizes the value of experiential learning

My favorite quote from Drive:

“We know that human beings are not merely smaller, slower, better-smelling horses galloping after that day’s carrot. We know- if we’ve spent time with young children or remember ourselves at our best- that we’re not destined to be passive or compliant; we’re designed to be active and engaged. And we know that the richest experiences in our lives aren’t when we’re clamoring for validation from others, but when we’re listening to our own voice- doing something that matters, doing it well, and doing it in the service of a cause larger than ourselves.”

Daniel Pink’s website: https://www.danpink.com

A Whole New Mind: https://www.danpink.com/books/whole-new-mind/

Drive: https://www.danpink.com/books/drive/

Sign up for Daniel Pink’s newsletter: https://www.danpink.com/subscribe/

About Experience Matters

Experience Matters with Steve Shapiro invites guests to reflect on the most profound learning experiences of their youth and to consider how we can reform American schools. Each episode provides clues about how parents and educators alike can engage young people in powerful, sometimes transformational experiential learning. Education can take many forms, but whatever form it takes- experience matters.